A New Kind of Christianity - McLaren
In A New Kind of Christianity McLaren quickly introduces two very important ideas: the six-line narrative and reading the Bible frontward instead of backward. This seems to be in line somewhat with the Preterist approach to the Biblical narrative; any thoughts on this from anyone? Is mainstream Christianity even aware of these possibilities?
I would love to hear your thoughts on how the outlook on the narrative spins their theology and defines where they are today in their faith...
I would love to hear your thoughts on how the outlook on the narrative spins their theology and defines where they are today in their faith...
Do You Love Gay People? - A Love Issue
The comments are really revealing as to how blind and hateful some really are. Sadly many do not even realize how hateful their words are... when someone states:
We should love people the way God loves them; with truth, and pure love. There is gay people outthere who would be willing to change their lives and accept Jesus as their personal Savior. We as christians, cannot decide who will accept Jesus or who won't. Our duty is to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with our own testimony, and with Love. I have known gay people who repented and now are living a normal life (according to God's purpose). Believe me, God can still change people's lives. Let's pray for all those beautiful people (including gay people) who need Jesus as their personal Savior. Amen.
Sadly this is one of the more "loving" comments posted on the site. Yet, when a gay person hears a Christian say the word "change" they hear us saying they must clean up their lives before they come to Jesus! That is NOT the Gospel... We are saved by Grace, straight or gay.
The hate just keeps on coming proving the video over and over again as right on, yet as you can see they are blind to their own hate. It is time to stop hating and start loving... Will you take a stand for Unconditional Love?
White Man ~ Michael Gungor Band
God is not a man
God is not a white man
God is not a man sitting on a cloud
God cannot be bought
God will not be boxed in
God will not be owned by religion
But God is love God is love
And He loves everyone God is love
God is love and He loves everyone
God is not a man
God is not an old man
God does not belong to Republicans
God is not a flag
Not even American
And God does not depend
On a government
But God is good God is good
And He loves everyone
Atheists and charlatans and
Communists and lesbians
And even old Pat Robertson oh
God He loves us all
Catholic or protestant
Terrorist or president
Everybody everybody love love
Love love love
Stop the hating please just stop
The hating now 'cause God is love
The Good Christian...
“A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Good Christian, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. The Good Christian yelled to the man, “Do you want to accept Jesus as your savior?” The man groaned… but gave no answer. “I said, do you want to accept Jesus as your savior?”
The man passed out from the pain he was in and due to loss of blood.
“Oh well, I would help you but first you must sit through my Chick Tracts and my let me walk you through the 4 spiritual laws… and…”
The man bled to death in front of him…
Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?
Lord, help me to be a good neighbor and not just a good Christian...
So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Good Christian, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. The Good Christian yelled to the man, “Do you want to accept Jesus as your savior?” The man groaned… but gave no answer. “I said, do you want to accept Jesus as your savior?”
The man passed out from the pain he was in and due to loss of blood.
“Oh well, I would help you but first you must sit through my Chick Tracts and my let me walk you through the 4 spiritual laws… and…”
The man bled to death in front of him…
Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?
Lord, help me to be a good neighbor and not just a good Christian...
The resurrection of the dead
The resurrection of the dead
I have a few preterist friends who take the resurrection as a “spiritual” resurrection and that it already has taken place. They take this view in part by viewing that Jesus already returned “spiritually” in 70ad. I do consider myself as a partial preterist though I do not suppose that I fully understand the view so in part will not address the full preterist view directly. In the discussion though I want to look at what the Bible states specifically about the “bodily” resurrection as well as look at the early church fathers view on the topic.
I start my view in Genesis.
2:15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the orchard in Eden to care for it and to maintain it. 2:16 Then the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat fruit from every tree of the orchard, 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.”
Now as the story continues we find that Eve is deceived and both Adam and Eve eat of the fruit and their eyes are opened and they begin to know both good and evil. At this point in Chapter 3 they are cast out of Eden before they can eat of the Tree of Life and become immortal. If they had eaten of the Tree of Life, then they could not have been redeemed.
3:22 And the Lord God said, “Now64 that the man has become like one of us,65 knowing66 good and evil, he must not be allowed67 to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
So man who could have eaten of the fruit of the Tree of Life and live forever, now will die. Most biblical scholars will point out that though man did not die physically, there was a spiritual death and separation from the Presence of God and the relationship that once was at that point now was severed. My understanding of the Preterist view is that they point out that Adam was not the first to “die” physically and that Able was the first to die physically. This is true yet what is overlooked is that Able was made in the “image” of Adam. The mortality that was now impressed on Adam was passed on to his son Able.
4:1 Now1 the man had marital relations with2 his wife Eve, and she became pregnant3 and gave birth to Cain. Then she said, “I have created4 a man just as the Lord did!”5
So instead of the dependence of the fact that Adam needed to die first man, does die as God states. Death does reign from Adam though he is not the first to die, death does take a human life and that being Able first born son of Adam.
Death begins its reign at Adam and Able is the first victim of death taking the mortal life of a human. To say that Adam needed to die first, misses that Death began in Adam and was passed on to Able. This does not mean that because Able died first, God was wrong in that the mortal body of man died the very day Adam ate of the fruit of good and evil.
Now as we press on, we see that in the Jewish view there is no doubt they believed in a physical resurrection of the dead. In fact it is considered one of the 13 principles of the Jewish faith.
Click here to read the rest of the post.
I have a few preterist friends who take the resurrection as a “spiritual” resurrection and that it already has taken place. They take this view in part by viewing that Jesus already returned “spiritually” in 70ad. I do consider myself as a partial preterist though I do not suppose that I fully understand the view so in part will not address the full preterist view directly. In the discussion though I want to look at what the Bible states specifically about the “bodily” resurrection as well as look at the early church fathers view on the topic.
I start my view in Genesis.
2:15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the orchard in Eden to care for it and to maintain it. 2:16 Then the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat fruit from every tree of the orchard, 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.”
Now as the story continues we find that Eve is deceived and both Adam and Eve eat of the fruit and their eyes are opened and they begin to know both good and evil. At this point in Chapter 3 they are cast out of Eden before they can eat of the Tree of Life and become immortal. If they had eaten of the Tree of Life, then they could not have been redeemed.
3:22 And the Lord God said, “Now64 that the man has become like one of us,65 knowing66 good and evil, he must not be allowed67 to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
So man who could have eaten of the fruit of the Tree of Life and live forever, now will die. Most biblical scholars will point out that though man did not die physically, there was a spiritual death and separation from the Presence of God and the relationship that once was at that point now was severed. My understanding of the Preterist view is that they point out that Adam was not the first to “die” physically and that Able was the first to die physically. This is true yet what is overlooked is that Able was made in the “image” of Adam. The mortality that was now impressed on Adam was passed on to his son Able.
4:1 Now1 the man had marital relations with2 his wife Eve, and she became pregnant3 and gave birth to Cain. Then she said, “I have created4 a man just as the Lord did!”5
So instead of the dependence of the fact that Adam needed to die first man, does die as God states. Death does reign from Adam though he is not the first to die, death does take a human life and that being Able first born son of Adam.
Death begins its reign at Adam and Able is the first victim of death taking the mortal life of a human. To say that Adam needed to die first, misses that Death began in Adam and was passed on to Able. This does not mean that because Able died first, God was wrong in that the mortal body of man died the very day Adam ate of the fruit of good and evil.
Now as we press on, we see that in the Jewish view there is no doubt they believed in a physical resurrection of the dead. In fact it is considered one of the 13 principles of the Jewish faith.
Click here to read the rest of the post.
Rob Bell Likes His Art Chocolate and Ryan Likes His Thorny Bushes
Rob Bell is a pretty cool dude. I loved reading his comments in this interview.
In relating Rob's thoughts on creation and art to my own personal interests, I found myself retorting a hearty "AMEN BROTHA!" while reading this interview. I have always been a sort of creative person and I love art. I also have seriously studied our natural world from the perspective of a Rangeland Management Specialist. I have spent a lifetime marveling the natural beauty of our setting in the mountains of Montana; I've spent weeks and months out in the prairies and hills of the Western US doing meticulous rangeland surveys for management purposes, monitoring, and Ecological Site Descriptions, or ESDs. The more time I spend studying the creative nature of our Creator, the more I realize the "beautiful poetry about a God who gets off on things just cause they are and that to me is central to any sort of living, breathing spirituality is going to be plenty of room for things that don’t have any purpose other than their own beauty, design and order." As Rob mentions the passage in Job where God is like, "HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE STORK?," my education and experience points me to the question, "have you considered the graceful bluebunch wheatgrass? how about the lowly slender phlox? What purpose does the indian paintbrush flower serve other than looking pretty? How beautiful is the wood's rose?
If you all are not familiar with wood's rose, most Young Earth Creationists will scowl when they observe this plant. This plant is a self-serving contradiction to their philosophy of the fall of man. The low to mid-sized bush has beautiful red flowers that produce a fleshy, red, globose to ellipsoid fruit called rose "hips". The real kicker to this plant is that it has those "cursed" thorns! Ha! Sometimes the imagination of a YEC perplexes me... Last year at a Creation Science Conference held here in Bozeman by our local Grace Bible Church, a very educated looking man tried explaining to me the proof that he had that these thorns magicly appeared on these once beautiful flowers after Adam decided to piss God off. He pulled a very professional looking book off his table and illustrated the "hyper-evolution" of thorns that took place once the entire Creation was deemed "cursed." It was at this same conference that I sat through a lecture that described that our beautiful Montana hilly landscape is a result of "water gaps" that formed as the world wide flood waters of judgement subsided. With this narrow and twisted perspective that many Christians have about our natural world today, the intrinsic beauty around them is lost as they fit their worldview into a simple mis-interpretation of scriptures. That is pretty sad.
It was at this same conference at GBC that I tried passing out some free copies of "Beyond Creation Science." Of course, the people in charge of the book table did not want me and my censored books anywhere near their stash of doctrinally homogeneous material causing controversy. Nevertheless, I succeeded in placing about a half-dozen copies in the hands of respective truth-seekers.
Rob Bell says at the end of the interview, "I think you have to cry out to God and and asked to be delivered from a system. American culture in the year 2008 is an oppressive system. It tells you to just buy, to follow the rules and be happy. I think you have to ask whether or not you want to be delivered from the system because that’s what it is... People have to ask themselves questions about what they even want or desire. Because it all begins with a deep dissatisfaction of how things are. And we do not change without pain. So a person would have to be in enough pain and despair to say “I do not want to be a part of this anymore. God, please show me another way of understanding things.”
Just as Rob Bell's "My Sweet Lord" chocolate sculpture serves as a commentary on the church in America and as a brilliant and provocative piece of art, the unmistakable beauty and creativity found in a little thorny bush out in my Montana backyard can be just as provocative.
In relating Rob's thoughts on creation and art to my own personal interests, I found myself retorting a hearty "AMEN BROTHA!" while reading this interview. I have always been a sort of creative person and I love art. I also have seriously studied our natural world from the perspective of a Rangeland Management Specialist. I have spent a lifetime marveling the natural beauty of our setting in the mountains of Montana; I've spent weeks and months out in the prairies and hills of the Western US doing meticulous rangeland surveys for management purposes, monitoring, and Ecological Site Descriptions, or ESDs. The more time I spend studying the creative nature of our Creator, the more I realize the "beautiful poetry about a God who gets off on things just cause they are and that to me is central to any sort of living, breathing spirituality is going to be plenty of room for things that don’t have any purpose other than their own beauty, design and order." As Rob mentions the passage in Job where God is like, "HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE STORK?," my education and experience points me to the question, "have you considered the graceful bluebunch wheatgrass? how about the lowly slender phlox? What purpose does the indian paintbrush flower serve other than looking pretty? How beautiful is the wood's rose?
If you all are not familiar with wood's rose, most Young Earth Creationists will scowl when they observe this plant. This plant is a self-serving contradiction to their philosophy of the fall of man. The low to mid-sized bush has beautiful red flowers that produce a fleshy, red, globose to ellipsoid fruit called rose "hips". The real kicker to this plant is that it has those "cursed" thorns! Ha! Sometimes the imagination of a YEC perplexes me... Last year at a Creation Science Conference held here in Bozeman by our local Grace Bible Church, a very educated looking man tried explaining to me the proof that he had that these thorns magicly appeared on these once beautiful flowers after Adam decided to piss God off. He pulled a very professional looking book off his table and illustrated the "hyper-evolution" of thorns that took place once the entire Creation was deemed "cursed." It was at this same conference that I sat through a lecture that described that our beautiful Montana hilly landscape is a result of "water gaps" that formed as the world wide flood waters of judgement subsided. With this narrow and twisted perspective that many Christians have about our natural world today, the intrinsic beauty around them is lost as they fit their worldview into a simple mis-interpretation of scriptures. That is pretty sad.
It was at this same conference at GBC that I tried passing out some free copies of "Beyond Creation Science." Of course, the people in charge of the book table did not want me and my censored books anywhere near their stash of doctrinally homogeneous material causing controversy. Nevertheless, I succeeded in placing about a half-dozen copies in the hands of respective truth-seekers.
Rob Bell says at the end of the interview, "I think you have to cry out to God and and asked to be delivered from a system. American culture in the year 2008 is an oppressive system. It tells you to just buy, to follow the rules and be happy. I think you have to ask whether or not you want to be delivered from the system because that’s what it is... People have to ask themselves questions about what they even want or desire. Because it all begins with a deep dissatisfaction of how things are. And we do not change without pain. So a person would have to be in enough pain and despair to say “I do not want to be a part of this anymore. God, please show me another way of understanding things.”
Just as Rob Bell's "My Sweet Lord" chocolate sculpture serves as a commentary on the church in America and as a brilliant and provocative piece of art, the unmistakable beauty and creativity found in a little thorny bush out in my Montana backyard can be just as provocative.