Hell does not exist, according to John Shelby Spong
1:18 PM
"Salvation is enhancing your humanity rather than rescuing you from it"
Aristotle.
"It has been handed down in mythical form from earliest times to posterity, that there are gods, and that the divine (Deity) compasses all nature. All beside this has been added, after the mythical style, for the purpose of persuading the multitude, and for the interests of the laws, and the advantage of the state."
Aristotle.
"It has been handed down in mythical form from earliest times to posterity, that there are gods, and that the divine (Deity) compasses all nature. All beside this has been added, after the mythical style, for the purpose of persuading the multitude, and for the interests of the laws, and the advantage of the state."
Ted Haggard is in the news again...
12:49 PM
Wed Nov 4, 9:39 pm ET
Here is the AP article
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – Ted Haggard, who was dismissed from the megachurch he founded after a man alleged a cash-for-sex relationship with him, plans to lead people in worship again.
The pastor told The Gazette he is holding a "prayer meeting" Nov. 12 in his living room in Colorado Springs but said it would also be correct to call it a church.
Haggard says he has no goals of building something like New Life Church, which began with about 25 people in his basement in 1985 and grew to thousands of members.
Haggard resigned from the church in 2006 after a Denver man said Haggard paid him for sex.
The gathering Nov. 12 will include music, an offering to New Life Church and a talk from Haggard about the power of prayer.
I wonder what Ted Haggard will say next, after his obvious hypocrisy. I'm not saying this out of despite, Ted Haggard should be loved and forgived. I hope he won't continue preaching against the lifestyle of gays and drug use. Ted has been humbled, so as Christians, let's love and forgive his holding him accountable to his words and actions.
Here is the AP article
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – Ted Haggard, who was dismissed from the megachurch he founded after a man alleged a cash-for-sex relationship with him, plans to lead people in worship again.
The pastor told The Gazette he is holding a "prayer meeting" Nov. 12 in his living room in Colorado Springs but said it would also be correct to call it a church.
Haggard says he has no goals of building something like New Life Church, which began with about 25 people in his basement in 1985 and grew to thousands of members.
Haggard resigned from the church in 2006 after a Denver man said Haggard paid him for sex.
The gathering Nov. 12 will include music, an offering to New Life Church and a talk from Haggard about the power of prayer.
I wonder what Ted Haggard will say next, after his obvious hypocrisy. I'm not saying this out of despite, Ted Haggard should be loved and forgived. I hope he won't continue preaching against the lifestyle of gays and drug use. Ted has been humbled, so as Christians, let's love and forgive his holding him accountable to his words and actions.
Prince of Peace – God of War Pacism vs Just War Theory
9:09 PM
Thanks to Nathan, for reminding me of this video. Ryan already posted this, but it's worth reposting.
Phillips, Craig & Dean - When God Ran - Live What do you think?
6:35 PM
What do you guys think?
Almighty God, the great I am
Immovable rock, omnipotent, powerful, awesome Lord
Victorious warrior, commanding King of Kings
Mighty conqueror, and the only time
the only time I ever saw Him run
CHORUS:
Was when He ran to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice He said,
“Son do you know I still love you?”
He caught me by surprise when God ran
The day I left home I knew I’d broken His heart
And I wondered then if things could ever be the same
Then one night I remembered His love for me
And down that dusty road ahead I could see
It was the only time – it was the only time I ever saw Him run
And then He ran to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice He said,
“Son do you know I still love you?”
He caught me by surprise as He brought me to my knees
When God ran – I saw Him run to me
BRIDGE:
I was so ashamed, all alone and so far away
But now I know He’s been waiting for this day
I saw Him run to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice I felt His love for me again
He ran to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice He said, “Son”, He called me Son
He said, “Son do you know I still love you?”
He ran to me and then I ran to Him
When God ran
Almighty God, the great I am
Immovable rock, omnipotent, powerful, awesome Lord
Victorious warrior, commanding King of Kings
Mighty conqueror, and the only time
the only time I ever saw Him run
CHORUS:
Was when He ran to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice He said,
“Son do you know I still love you?”
He caught me by surprise when God ran
The day I left home I knew I’d broken His heart
And I wondered then if things could ever be the same
Then one night I remembered His love for me
And down that dusty road ahead I could see
It was the only time – it was the only time I ever saw Him run
And then He ran to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice He said,
“Son do you know I still love you?”
He caught me by surprise as He brought me to my knees
When God ran – I saw Him run to me
BRIDGE:
I was so ashamed, all alone and so far away
But now I know He’s been waiting for this day
I saw Him run to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice I felt His love for me again
He ran to me, He took me in His arms
Held my head to His chest, said “My son’s come home again”
Lifted my face, wiped the tears from my eyes
With forgiveness in His voice He said, “Son”, He called me Son
He said, “Son do you know I still love you?”
He ran to me and then I ran to Him
When God ran
What Exactly Does it Mean to Believe?
9:56 PM
Thanks to Nathan for this well thought out response to my question:
"I think I'm going to order this book; a Christian philosophy prof recommended this to me. I'm struggling with the question, "What do we really know?" I know some things, but some important things in Christianity, I'm questioning whether I really believe them to be intellectually honest with myself."
What exactly does it mean to believe? The word "belief" has evolved over the years. In the 14th Century with Chaucer it meant "beloved." In the 1st Century, it meant something completely different. In Life of Flavious Josephus, he writes about confronting a rebel during the Jewish / Roman War. Josephus wanted to convince this rebel to stop the futile attempts of attacking the Roman Empire and look for other ways to achieve his desired results. Josephus told the rebel to “Repent and believe in me”. In Greek that is, “metanoesein kai pistos emoi genesesthai”. This is precisely the same exact greek phrase that Jesus uses, which even the most skeptical Jesus scholars would admit.
Josephus isn't simply saying repent and believe in me as some sort of mental excercise. He's more or less saying turn away from your methods of violence and follow my way. However, as a member of the Jewish aristocracy, and a pawn of the Roman Empire, he obviously had an agenda. Jesus call to repentance was certainly more, but certainly not less. The mental exercise is needed to initiate the process, but can't be expected to remain fixed, and isn't so much the point as following the way of Jesus. Imagine if the rebel told Josephus that, yes, he believed (with our current concept of belief), but didn't follow. He surely would have been put to death by the Roman Empire. The Gospel is trans formative not affirmative.
Belief will evolve as well as your doubt. But in my opinion as well as Jewish tradition, doubt is a spiritual practice that comes from God. But the secret is to continue to doubt the doubt and never be satisfied, always be maladjusted with your conclusions. Always leave room for discussion and uncertainty.
I think that doubt keeps us from putting God into a box, making Him/Her an idol, or a Rorschach test in our image. The desert Christian mystics used to call God "Nothing" as the word "God" was/is essentially a placeholder for a name of the Ineffable Being. We have no words to define the Divine.
One thing that I've been mulling over lately is I'm quite tired of Christianity. I love Jesus, and search for God, but I see Christians pushing Christianity over Jesus, which is in my mind complete idolatry and heresy...although they would call me a heretic.
totally random, but I was reading on how to make a Halloween for Jaxin, and I took a complete rabbit trail and wound up reading about the Magi (the Three Kings...where we get our word "Magic" from). They weren't Christian or even Jewish. They were Zoroastrian astrologers. In fact the greek uses the same word to describe a sorcerer in Acts. Yet they blessed Jesus. How many churches, (even myself) would be humble enough to receive a blessing from a self described Wiccan?
Here is something that CS Lewis wrote in "Mere Christianity" which is where I'm at.
""The world does not consist of 100 percent Christians and 100 percent non-Christians. There are people (a great many of them) who are slowly ceasing to be Christians but who still call themselves by that name: some of them are clergymen."
"There are other people who are slowly becoming Christians though they do not yet call themselves so. There are people who do not accept the full Christian doctrine about Christ but who are so strongly attracted by Him that they are His in a much deeper sense than they themselves understand."
"There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it. For example, a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain other points. Many of the good Pagans long before Christ’s birth may have been in this position. And always, of course, there are a great many people who are just confused in mind and have a lot of inconsistent beliefs all jumbled up together. Consequently, it is not much use trying to make judgments about Christians and non-Christians in the mass."
The world needs Jesus, and less of Christianity piling up mental sets of certainties. The Muslim world is realizing this. Recently at an Islamic conference, the leader was talking about how Islam is going through now (with Shia and Sunni) what Christians and Catholics went through during the 100 years war. They said the only way we will make it through this without blowing each other up is to follow the teachings of the Prophet Isa...(Jesus).
That was a long answer, but I say read the book, and let me know what you think. Never end the search, and never underestimate the strength of community in wrestling with the doubts. It's often tough to find a "safe" place to express the questions, but you always have a safe non-judgmental ear in me. I'd also be curious to hear where exactly, if you can pinpoint it, do your doubts lie?
"I think I'm going to order this book; a Christian philosophy prof recommended this to me. I'm struggling with the question, "What do we really know?" I know some things, but some important things in Christianity, I'm questioning whether I really believe them to be intellectually honest with myself."
What exactly does it mean to believe? The word "belief" has evolved over the years. In the 14th Century with Chaucer it meant "beloved." In the 1st Century, it meant something completely different. In Life of Flavious Josephus, he writes about confronting a rebel during the Jewish / Roman War. Josephus wanted to convince this rebel to stop the futile attempts of attacking the Roman Empire and look for other ways to achieve his desired results. Josephus told the rebel to “Repent and believe in me”. In Greek that is, “metanoesein kai pistos emoi genesesthai”. This is precisely the same exact greek phrase that Jesus uses, which even the most skeptical Jesus scholars would admit.
Josephus isn't simply saying repent and believe in me as some sort of mental excercise. He's more or less saying turn away from your methods of violence and follow my way. However, as a member of the Jewish aristocracy, and a pawn of the Roman Empire, he obviously had an agenda. Jesus call to repentance was certainly more, but certainly not less. The mental exercise is needed to initiate the process, but can't be expected to remain fixed, and isn't so much the point as following the way of Jesus. Imagine if the rebel told Josephus that, yes, he believed (with our current concept of belief), but didn't follow. He surely would have been put to death by the Roman Empire. The Gospel is trans formative not affirmative.
Belief will evolve as well as your doubt. But in my opinion as well as Jewish tradition, doubt is a spiritual practice that comes from God. But the secret is to continue to doubt the doubt and never be satisfied, always be maladjusted with your conclusions. Always leave room for discussion and uncertainty.
I think that doubt keeps us from putting God into a box, making Him/Her an idol, or a Rorschach test in our image. The desert Christian mystics used to call God "Nothing" as the word "God" was/is essentially a placeholder for a name of the Ineffable Being. We have no words to define the Divine.
One thing that I've been mulling over lately is I'm quite tired of Christianity. I love Jesus, and search for God, but I see Christians pushing Christianity over Jesus, which is in my mind complete idolatry and heresy...although they would call me a heretic.
totally random, but I was reading on how to make a Halloween for Jaxin, and I took a complete rabbit trail and wound up reading about the Magi (the Three Kings...where we get our word "Magic" from). They weren't Christian or even Jewish. They were Zoroastrian astrologers. In fact the greek uses the same word to describe a sorcerer in Acts. Yet they blessed Jesus. How many churches, (even myself) would be humble enough to receive a blessing from a self described Wiccan?
Here is something that CS Lewis wrote in "Mere Christianity" which is where I'm at.
""The world does not consist of 100 percent Christians and 100 percent non-Christians. There are people (a great many of them) who are slowly ceasing to be Christians but who still call themselves by that name: some of them are clergymen."
"There are other people who are slowly becoming Christians though they do not yet call themselves so. There are people who do not accept the full Christian doctrine about Christ but who are so strongly attracted by Him that they are His in a much deeper sense than they themselves understand."
"There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it. For example, a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain other points. Many of the good Pagans long before Christ’s birth may have been in this position. And always, of course, there are a great many people who are just confused in mind and have a lot of inconsistent beliefs all jumbled up together. Consequently, it is not much use trying to make judgments about Christians and non-Christians in the mass."
The world needs Jesus, and less of Christianity piling up mental sets of certainties. The Muslim world is realizing this. Recently at an Islamic conference, the leader was talking about how Islam is going through now (with Shia and Sunni) what Christians and Catholics went through during the 100 years war. They said the only way we will make it through this without blowing each other up is to follow the teachings of the Prophet Isa...(Jesus).
That was a long answer, but I say read the book, and let me know what you think. Never end the search, and never underestimate the strength of community in wrestling with the doubts. It's often tough to find a "safe" place to express the questions, but you always have a safe non-judgmental ear in me. I'd also be curious to hear where exactly, if you can pinpoint it, do your doubts lie?
Who is in control of our destiny....
4:04 PM
This conversation comes from a quote:
"The best day of your life is the one on which you decide your life is your own. No apologies or excuses. No one to lean on, rely on, or blame. The gift is yours - it is an amazing journey - and you alone are responsible for the quality of it. This is the day your life really begins." - Bob Moawad
I said...
"I'm trying to understand, I'm at a point where I don't know if God is in control or me. Where does God fit it in with all of this?"
Jose said...
"You are a part of God just as God is a part of you. Who do you believe has control over your destiny?"
I responded...
"I know bad things happen to really positive people, and good things happen to energy vampires. I believe in the law of attraction to a point, a lot of opportunities come my because of my energy, but I don't believe I can control God, or "the divine" even though part of the Divine is in me. I'm struggling through this concept right now."
Jose replied...
"It's not so much as to control God than to have power through God.
Have you read Conversation with God? I believe these books could help you through this, through the questions and uncertainties. It might just make sense to you or it might not."
Nathan interjected...
"that's a fun conversation. to me posing the question as "Who do you believe has control over your destiny?" is like asking in between you and your wife, who has control of your marriage? Why does it need to be controlled? God appeals to our most basic human need...to be in relation...to love and be loved. The destiny of your marriage will be shaped... Read More by the perpetual reciprocating love you show each other. I see our lives and God in similar relation shaping our destiny. No one owns or controls the destiny, but the destiny is formed by the relation.
What do you think about your question?"
Jose replied to Nathan...
"Now I am saying, the reason why I posed such a question is because most people feel that there is an outer force in control over their lives. They leave everything up to that. Basically their destiny can follow multiple options of routes. I ask such a question because I want to know if people realize how much power resides within themselves. Nothing needs to be controlled, but then people have to take responsibility for their actions and not blame, rely on anyone but themselves.
You said: 'The destiny of your marriage will be shaped by the perpetual reciprocating love you show each other.'
Who is showing that love? Me, you, God, your wife? If you and your wife are reciprocating perpetual love for one another... then you are in control of your relationship. You choose to do so.
But then I say whatever we believe to be true, is true! :D"
My response to all this...
"How can we make the erroneous claim, 'whatever we believe to be true, is true?'"
"The best day of your life is the one on which you decide your life is your own. No apologies or excuses. No one to lean on, rely on, or blame. The gift is yours - it is an amazing journey - and you alone are responsible for the quality of it. This is the day your life really begins." - Bob Moawad
I said...
"I'm trying to understand, I'm at a point where I don't know if God is in control or me. Where does God fit it in with all of this?"
Jose said...
"You are a part of God just as God is a part of you. Who do you believe has control over your destiny?"
I responded...
"I know bad things happen to really positive people, and good things happen to energy vampires. I believe in the law of attraction to a point, a lot of opportunities come my because of my energy, but I don't believe I can control God, or "the divine" even though part of the Divine is in me. I'm struggling through this concept right now."
Jose replied...
"It's not so much as to control God than to have power through God.
Have you read Conversation with God? I believe these books could help you through this, through the questions and uncertainties. It might just make sense to you or it might not."
Nathan interjected...
"that's a fun conversation. to me posing the question as "Who do you believe has control over your destiny?" is like asking in between you and your wife, who has control of your marriage? Why does it need to be controlled? God appeals to our most basic human need...to be in relation...to love and be loved. The destiny of your marriage will be shaped... Read More by the perpetual reciprocating love you show each other. I see our lives and God in similar relation shaping our destiny. No one owns or controls the destiny, but the destiny is formed by the relation.
What do you think about your question?"
Jose replied to Nathan...
"Now I am saying, the reason why I posed such a question is because most people feel that there is an outer force in control over their lives. They leave everything up to that. Basically their destiny can follow multiple options of routes. I ask such a question because I want to know if people realize how much power resides within themselves. Nothing needs to be controlled, but then people have to take responsibility for their actions and not blame, rely on anyone but themselves.
You said: 'The destiny of your marriage will be shaped by the perpetual reciprocating love you show each other.'
Who is showing that love? Me, you, God, your wife? If you and your wife are reciprocating perpetual love for one another... then you are in control of your relationship. You choose to do so.
But then I say whatever we believe to be true, is true! :D"
My response to all this...
"How can we make the erroneous claim, 'whatever we believe to be true, is true?'"
Resources? What links would you like on this Blog
8:54 PM
Hey guys, what are your favorite sites that I could link to on this blog?