Excellent topic, Bruce! I've posted it up on our site. See you tomorrow!

I'm probably getting ahead of the discussion here, but I'm not sure that I would consider 1 and 2 to be outright lies, so much as half-truths. A lot will depend on how we understand Deism and its relationship to traditional Christianity. I'm looking forward to seeing where this discussion goes tomorrow, though!

"Christians" do play lose with the truth, or even outright light, but usually it is out of ignorance and lack of study of the Word. However, I do think America was founded as a Christian nation - even the U.S. Supreme court said that in one of it's decisions - though it was quite some time ago. I agree our founding fathers were not "evangelical" Christians (or at least not by todays terms - at least not all of them). Is it a lie to say somebody who is a socialist IS A SOCIALIST? I think that when our President & VP elect are both more liberal in their voting record than Bernie Sanders, who is a confessed socialist (he is has the 4th most liberal voting record) then "if it votes like a socialist and speaks like a socialist - it is a SOCIALIST!. I make no apologies for such a clear observation. God doesn't hate liberals, but I hate what they promote - like abortion, homosexual marriage etc. I think I can work up a study to show it is murder and therefore God does hate it too. Of course many people are "intolerant" of my "intolerance" - I forgive them for it is like Reagan said: "It isn't that Liberals are Ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." I can't stand Lennon, especially his communist/athiestic song "Imagine" - here's my words to Imagine:
Imagine no liberals - no Democrats too. Imagine no athiests - no false religions too. Imagine ONE KINGDOM with Christ as King - and ONE BODY IN CHRIST - as HE prayed we'd be. IMAGE LIFE IS GOOD - IT'S EASY IF YOU TRY. Maybe American Christians are "perceived" by the public, as . . . compulsive liars," but we know the unchristian public has a distorted perspective. They may call us hypocrits, but actually, we're just sinners redeemed by the blood of Christ.

Here is a good article pertaining to the subject at hand, FYI:

http://www.searchingtogether.org/articles/zens/americanism.htm

Most of you guys know that I am not afraid to point out the glaring fact that it is the strong influence of Christian Zionism in our country that will lead to some of these common conclusions that Bruce points out. David, just as you have such a keen eye for Socialists, I hope you someday use the same protocol to help identify Zionists. I don't believe Michael Savage, for instance, is a poster-child for how Christians should be behaving... I find the last two sentences of your comment very tragic :(

I am sorry to say I will not make it this Thursday... totally bummed as I wanted to hear you teach Bruce.

I will be praying for you all...

Blessings,
iggy

Thanks for clarifying your comments at the meeting, David, and thank you again Bruce for such an educational discussion today! As I said David, I love you man but it just sounded like you were proposing that it is the not-Christian's fault or "distorted perspective" for seeing that Christians are hypocrites sometimes. Any conscious person can see that Christians sin sometimes, and I see now that we were not on the same page with the semantics of the term, considering the Greek and Roman context that you put it in. Thank you for clarifying.

David, I beg you to be a little more open on the study of Zionism. They are not all Jews, in fact most of them are Christians or claim to be Christians. Take George Bush and his entire administration, for example; or both sides in this recent presidential election! Michael Savage is just one of the many loudmouths in the media who is talented at indoctrinating people into this belief system.

Sorry I haven't been on the blog for a while; it's been a busy week, but I enjoyed last week's discussion.

I wanted to comment briefly on the idea of "application." How do we apply the Bible's teachings to our daily lives?

I think we can all agree that the Bible does not specifically comment on every topic facing our contemporary culture. For instance, we do not have a record of God commenting directly on the ethical use of the internet. This is where application becomes essential; we have to "rightly divide the word of truth" and take into account Biblical teachings and examples that are analogous to issues we face today.

I think this is the case in regard to the issue of abortion. While we do not have a Biblical passage directly stating the "abortion is murder," those of us in the pro-life camp would make the case that the ethical teaching of Scripture directs us to avoid taking innocent life to the greatest extent possible. The majority of those in the pro-life camp would agree that there are rare instances when an abortion is medically necessary to protect the life of the mother; however, we would contend that the taking of life in any context in which the life of the mother is not directly threatened would be unethical. So, I think it is unfair to characterize this position as a "lie," as it is a matter of application, just as many other areas of our life are governed by Biblical principles.